Alien abductions 123>Skeptic47 posted:8/2/2011 5:34:06 AM I've been doing some reading on alien abductions because a lot of people on this site claim to have experienced them.I'm wondering how much people here know about night terrors and sleep paralysis, and the link between them and claims of alien abduction.To quote wikipedia ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis")"The paralysis may be accompanied by terrifying hallucinations (hypnopompic or hypnagogic) and an acute sense of danger.Sleep paralysis is particularly frightening to the individual because of the vividness of such hallucinations. The hallucinatory element to sleep paralysis makes it even more likely that someone will interpret the experience as a dream, since completely fanciful or dream-like objects may appear in the room alongside one's normal vision. Some scientists have proposed this condition as an explanation for alien abductions and ghostly encounters. A study by Susan Blackmore and Marcus Cox (the Blackmore-Cox study) of the University of the West of England supports the suggestion that reports of alien abductions are related to sleep paralysis rather than to temporal lobelability."And a description of a night terror from a Mr. McConnel"You begin to sense - deep down inside you - that something has gone very wrong. Slowly, almost dimly, you regain enough consciousness to realize that you are suffocating, that some heavy weight is lying on your chest and crushing your lungs. Suddenly you realize your breathing has almost stopped, and you are dying for air. Terrified, you scream! At once, you seem to awaken. There is this thing hovering over you, crushing the very life out of your lungs. You shout at the thing, but it won't leave you alone.Despite a strange feeling of paralysis, you start to resist. Your pulse begins to race, your breathing becomes rapid, and you push futilely at the thing that is choking you to death. Your legs tremble, then begin to thrash about under the covers. You sweep the bedclothes aside, stumble to your feet, and flee into the darkness. You run clumsily through the house, trying to get from the thing. And then, all at once, you find yourself in your living room. The lights come on, the thing instantly retreats to the shadows of your mind, and you are awake. You are safe now, but you are intensely wrought up and disturbed. You shake your head, wondering what has happened to you. You can remember that you were fleeing from the thing that was crushing you. But you have forgotten your scream and talking in your sleep. The thing dream is a classic example of a night terror. According to Anthony Kales, a scientist at the Penn State Medical School, night terrors occur to but one person in several hundred. However, if someone else in your family has a history of night terrors, you are 10 times more likely to experience night terrors than would ordinarily be the case. ” "Understanding Human Behavior" by James V. McConnel (1986)I used to experience night terrors during a particularly chaotic and anxious time in my life - I never attributed the experience to alien abduction but the intensity of the dreams did have me second guessing myself, almost believing them to be real.From what I've been reading here on paranormalnews.com this sounds awfully similar to the stories many users have given of their experience of alien abductions.Thoughts?sorgfelt posted:8/2/2011 8:33:40 AM I used to have repeated "dreams" of floating inches above the sidewalks about my house, while propelling myself by paddling with my arms, while trying to escape a monster that was chasing me. It was years later that I started meditating and having out-of-body experiences that I realized that I had been experiencing real out-of-body experiences. I don't know what the monster was, except that eventually I realized in a dream that it was a disconnected part of myself trying to reintegrate with me. When I let it, the experiences of monsters stopped. There are interpretations all over the board about what all of these things mean. I personally reject any fanciful notion of materialistic scientists that our mind and these experiences are simply epiphenomenon of our meterial brain. By the way, I have a degree in physics, and know that not all physicists have their heads in the sand. However, I also acknowledge that, while our mind is more than our brain, the energy that we travel in is itself greatly affected by our mind, and relates to other minds that are interacting with us, human or alien, or whatever. And, whenever someone questions the reality of these experiences, I agree only if they also agree to question the reality of their material "reality". Finally, I recommend meditating, as it improves ones conscious understanding of ones experiences.0x6a656666 posted:8/2/2011 9:12:27 AM Skeptic, I am beginning to respectively like you. I personally experience sleep paralysis monthly, and not 'alien abductions'. Sleep paralysis is a tool to a deeper state. But what people experience in sleep paralysis can overwhelm them and make them believe all kinds of things. And it often overwhelms me, too. I understand when I experience such states that I could be hallucinating, but it does not feel like one. At all. I am rational about it, but I am also open to accept other explanations. spiritech0 posted:8/2/2011 10:39:39 AM If you're aware of being paralyzed, wouldn't that make the term "sleep paralysis" an oxymoron? Because I've seen "Greys" in my paralysis. Meh. What I think should be considered is the historical measurement of this phenomena across the globe. How is it that so many people from different ages and communities can possibly experience the same things? Could it be that our natural bioelectric fields have always been linked, meaning that what our brains and bodies process affect our minds and spirits collectively? And could this mean that collectively we're compromised via WiFi? Is it the "Akashic Records", or just that holographic universe exploited as "The Matrix" (as in the pop-culture predictive programming)? Because in my most vivid dreams, I've always been like Neo. But when I wake up paralyzed, the "Natural Law" behind that is a mystery to me.Skeptic47 posted:8/2/2011 2:44:10 PM sorgfelt - I meditate often. "Definite psychological significance attaches to each of the deities appearing in the Bardo Thodol; but in order to grasp it, the student must bear in mind that... the apparitional visions seen by the deceased... are not visions of reality, but nothing more than the hallucinatory embodiments of the thought-forms born of the mental content of the percipient; or in other words, they are the intellectual impulses which have assumed personified form in the after-death dream state."Evans, W (1927). The Tibetian Book of the Dead: The After-Death Experiences on the Bardo Plane, according to Lama Kazi Dawa-Samdup's English Rendering (2nd Edition). London: Oxford University Press.Put simply - After-death experiences will show visions of deities based on the belief system prevalent in the mind of the person experiencing them but "are not visions of reality".The belief systems of most people on this website replace the traditional concept of deities with supernatural beings (Aliens, ghosts, pixie folk, etc. etc.) and the visions that they experience would be of such.A current theory states that a molecule called dimethyltryptamine is released into the human brain upon death and during near death experiences, and is responsible for the visions described by those who have near death experiences."Dr. Rick Strassman, while conducting DMT research in the 1990s at the University of New Mexico, advanced the controversial hypothesis that a massive release of DMT from the pineal gland prior to death or near death was the cause of the near death experience (NDE) phenomenon. Several of his test subjects reported NDE-like audio or visual hallucinations... Several subjects also reported contact with 'other beings', alien like, insectoid or reptilian in nature, in highly advanced technological environments where the subjects were 'carried', 'probed', 'tested', 'manipulated', 'dismembered', 'taught', 'loved' and even 'raped' by these 'beings'."Similar theories link lower doses of DMT to the experience of dreams."It may play a role in mediating the visual effects of natural dreaming, and also near-death experiences, religious visions and other mystical states."(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine#Conjecture)Based on the information from these two sources one can come to an understanding about the experiences that you may have had during night terrors:1) The visions you experience are not real, they are manifestations of a chemical substance interacting with the brain - similar to a drug trip.2) People from different backgrounds can experience the same things during these visions because they share similar belief systems.However, to push things a little further into the realm of conjecture - J.V Wallach has some interesting theories:"A new hypothesis proposed is that in addition to being involved in altered states of consciousness, endogenous DMT may be involved in the creation of normal waking states of consciousness. It is proposed that DMT and other endogenous hallucinogens mediate their neurological abilities by acting as neurotransmitters at a sub class of the trace amine receptors; a group of receptors found in the CNS where DMT and other hallucinogens have been shown to have activity. Wallach further proposes that in this way waking consciousness can be thought of as a controlled psychedelic experience. It is when the control of these systems becomes loosened and their behavior no longer correlates with the external world that the altered states arise." This theory could be used to support sorgfelt's point about 'material reality' and negate what I've said previously about the reality of these visions, because if reality is an altered state of consciousness it isn't necessarily any more real than the hallucinations one is experiencing.At this point I'd like to point out that while this means exploration into other levels of reality may be possible, human sanity and our basic concept of reality will always be defined by one's connection to the level of reality experienced by the normal ratio of these chemicals in the human body.I'd like to suggest a clearer definition of terms - what I have been calling reality I will now endeavour to call "HUMAN reality" and I recommend 'non-material reality' be called something along the lines of "WIDER reality". monica1968 posted:8/2/2011 4:04:40 PM I will say this..........When the first "event " happened last year......i had no idea what was going on.....All i know is i "awoke" and it wasnt in my bed......i WAS AWAKE.......My first reaction was to seek professional help. First was a visit to a psychiatrist who after a lenghty assessment deemed me sound of mind. Which although reassuring in one sense it gave me no answers, so i sought a psychologist thinking it was some deep underlying trauma that had resufaced, [i will say that whatever i had been through i had forgiven everybody involved and moved on] The psychologist did her assessments and again found me to be "normal", one of the reasons cited was although the "experiences [another 2 had occured by the time i got to see her] were odd and possibly traumatic, and because in every other sense of life it was "normal" she too found no explanation of why it could happen. I also wish to point out that up unitl this time in life i had no interest in scifi or indeed any other way out programs, or still dont really......Then the unthinkable happened....i was awake it was2.34am i was on the settee reading.......When i heard the words "we cant wait any longer" at the same time i was hearing an electrical hum......similiar of that to an electrcity pylon surging is the best way i can describe......i was then paralysed i could only move my eyes and then out. Ithis is a very very brief overview of the start of an incredible journey, My mother too she remembers from an early age small visitors to her bedroom who "walked through walls", And she also has a backround working for the 2 biggest companies involved in the space program and her iq159 is well above average, she is also not given to flights of fancy.......Alien[in the sense its alien to me]abduction was the last choice i wanted.....infact i would say anytihng but because that way i wouldnt have to put up with being called "fucking insane" by the likes of skeptic/ware47.......And to you skeptic not once did you ask me for proof or evidence, i have pictures of scoop marks puncture marks non of which i could have done myself, And i also read up about the hypnogogic state i read all i could of the conventional thoughts it could have been before finally coming to the conlcusions that i did.......Along with other such stuff........This is all i am going to say on this matter to you anyway.......Finally something i did pick up on was the only thing that you believed in my story was the abuse i suffered if i am so "fucking insane" why do you only choose to believe bits.........Good daySkeptic47 posted:8/2/2011 5:51:17 PM Monica - I DID ask for proof:From the forum post "Aliens... really?""Monica1968 is a serial offender - Every single forum post contains a claim that she has had contact with aliens or some kind of secret government agency and she honestly seems to expect people to take that on face value. She seems to be trying to give off the impression that she has been abducted and knows things that other people don't - how about either backing up your attitude with some facts or shutting the hell up? ...So I want you to understand - I'm looking for photos, videos, audio extracts, leaked reports or ANYTHING aside from your own personal story about how you (or a friend's friend) were 'abducted', or saw a Grey buying the newspaper in Cardiff last Thursday."To which you responded:"laugh out loud.....are you for real..........facts my friend...........all there for whover..........................lol.................well i am not going to speak for gemini.....he can do that himself.....but i know him to be of sound mind................omg............more laugh............oh well my freind..........happy hunting"Not exactly the proof I was looking for, and you've done exactly what I was talking about in the afore quoted post - you've made a lot of dubious claims and offered nothing to back them up.For example - your mother: what are her full name and date of birth? Someone with that prestigous a background is sure to be mentioned somewhere online, right? Although I'm sure you'll respond with something equally dubious and unprovable like "she was involved in top secret research and her name was not used".Also, without being rude I'd like to say that I don't believe (and won't without proof) that anyone with your (how to put this at least semi-politely...) shaky grasp of language has a parent with an IQ of 159.However, I'm not interested in talking to you, Monica unless you can do more than cite personal anecdotes to back up your case. What I am interested in is having a serious discussion with members of this site who can sustain an intelligent conversation on topics that can be linked to facts or, at least, are interesting philosophically. I'm starting to do that, Monica - please don't ruin it for me.monica1968 posted:8/2/2011 7:27:23 PM you aked me to back up my proof...you also want me to put my mothers name up and date of birth..........do i do this on the forum....or do i give you my email.........answers on postcard monica1968 posted:8/2/2011 7:39:15 PM And i do not expect ayone to believe a word i am saying.....i just hope they do....or at least afford me the curtesy i give to all other members until they start hurling insults......and getting personal......and resorting to foul swearing....omg.....i never swore once and dint warrant the diatribe you dished out...skpetic i just think you like the sound of your voice....And you are doing the very same thing that of which you accuse meSkeptic47 posted:8/2/2011 7:42:39 PM Like I said - I'm not interested in this conversation. I'm sorry that I was rude. Are you willing to chalk it up to a personality clash, bury the hatchett and let me have this conversation that was just getting interesting?spiritech0 posted:8/3/2011 12:59:00 AM 47... quit attacking Monica and her personal experiences. For example, you cannot prove to us what you did last summer as it can also be considered fantasy for the same reasons, like: "The pictures are Photoshopped." - "The documents are doctored in similar fashion." - "A five year old can produce a superior film." blah blah blah. It's a bad thing.* Everyone, please leave the flaming to the Sun. *And I beleive that "theory" is another word for "fiction", since it's not fact, just another idea. One of my favorite jokes that comes to mind (yeah, there is time for levity here) concerning beleif systems and how it makes one person's angel is another's alien is another's whatever... Bugs Bunny being chased by Elmer Fudd off the side of a cliff. Elmer plummets to the ground, and Bugs is just standing there. He turns to the viewers and says, "I know this defies the Law of Gravity... But you see, I've never studied Law." (Bada-bing. Cue Merrie Melodies music, End credits)But I spoke true about my "sleep" paralysis experience. I saw a "Grey". I have no idea why, instead of someone I love or a famous entertainer I instead got a bland and spooky "Grey" is beyond my desire to ponder. I want nothing to do with such a thing, and yet it's an experience like all I still experience. It happened to me, and there's nothing to dissuade me from it. C'est la vie.Now surely there must be some merit or credit given to this global phenomenon beyond a chemical imbalance producing such detailed experience among all cultures and individuals. I can imagine many reasons based on hearsay and pop culture and my own reasoning, but it's like blinking. I simply must accept that this sort of thing happens and wonder when in the [expletive] we're going to have X-Games Sky Surfing on Jupiter. Dammit. lolSkeptic47 posted:8/3/2011 2:18:26 AM spiritech0 - In this thread I never meant to attack, merely probe; While it's true that I can't prove what I did last summer, I'm also not trying to convince people to change their minds based on my personal account of that holiday.I asked for evidence and was given nothing but more anecdotes - I was then accused of never having asked for proof and told that the proof I'd originally asked for exists. I still have yet to see it.This isn't the point. And you're right - I have made inflammatory posts towards Monica, for that I have apologised and I hope I will be forgiven. You have my word that it will not happen again - If I can't show Monica respect I'll simply ignore her.Now - Back to the discussion at hand:A theory certainly isn't fact but it's a hell of a lot more compelling than fiction - especially when the theory is backed empirically sound scientific tests.I'm certainly not saying that any of these theories are 100% fact but they're closer to proof than personal anecdote or conjecture.What did you think of the last theory I posted? As I said it could be used to argue that although these experiences are effects of chemicals on the brain they could still have basis within reality, just not OUR reality.Please understand that I'm not trying to dissuade you from your views, I'm interested in having an intellectual discussion with individuals whose views a vastly different from mine - I believe that reasoned debate of this sort is a legitimate path to personal growth.I guess I should also explain my position - I don't believe in the supernatural, because if it existed it would be called 'the natural' - What I do believe in is things that are natural that seem supernatural because of their mind-blowing connotations - things like DMT, the Higgs-Boson field (actually most particle physics), and dreams that are so intense that they can fool people into believing that they have a basis within HUMAN reality.Know of anything like this? Hit me with it. Know of anything that SHOULD fall into the field of supernatural but is backed up by science? Hit me with it. Looking forward to your reply.BeeLever posted:8/3/2011 9:09:08 AM I'm on your side monica, you go girl.spiritech0 posted:8/3/2011 12:48:26 PM ONE easy answer I have for your last questions is: "Skeptic47", and it's based on an aspect of communication skills. I know we're typing here, but hear me out, per se.1) On matters of any debate, ignoring someone already in it takes the ignorer (ftw) out of the realm of legitimate consideration, as it cannot be reciprocated wholly. Say what you mean, just don't be mean, and keep the mutual brainstorming going. That's the point of all of us logging into this site: To find answers, maybe the one that explains it all.2) Theory is not fact, period. Since most people are unable to travel the world to experience with all their senses and sensibility the empirically academically sound professional scientific multi testing of land masses, structures, and items as featured in the good old film/book "Chariots of the Gods", pondering on that film's information will be beneficial for you, 47.3) Theory is not fact, period. And what I'd like for you to do is provide the scientific evidence that causes you to declare your argument that there is another reality besides "OURS"; that such a reality is not "HUMAN"; and how that differs from what you describe as an experience that is so intense, so vivid that it must be some other reality. And how does this not contradict your passionate disbeleif when a being other than yourself declares that beings from other worlds exist?4) After the third hypen in your last paragraph, you typed ", and dreams that are so intense that they can fool people into beleiving that they have a basis within HUMAN reality." ..... Oh boy, look at where I'm about to go.... That statement that only "Skeptic47" could be empirically and scientifically soundly proven to have typed, does lend truth to another poster's theoretical question, which I paraphrase: "Is Skeptic47 even human?" ... I can only conclude that even with the certain anonymity of the Internet, the fault-finding, pseudo-contemptuous, non-investigative methodology presented as highly intelligent conversation can only come from the only kind of being that merely computes data. I theorize that "Skeptic47" is either a sophisticated ape, or by any other name - software.Dreams so intense that they can fool people into beleiving that they have basis within HUMAN reality, indeed. Quantum sciences prove the idea of the "Holographic Universe" as viable, but mortal sentience reigns supreme, no matter the so called illusion. Illusions are naturally generated. Aliens exist. Travel through space and time is real and proven publicly on the internet.More later...spiritech0 posted:8/3/2011 2:26:05 PM (yay, work break)... So you, Skeptic47, and any readers know, that my "epic failure" at a Don Rickles style argument is just that. I'm no more a scientist than the infamous Mythbusters. Something else that hinders scientific exploration is done this way:1) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43949652/ns/technology_and_science-science/2) http://www.oceanexplorer.se/3) http://www.oldthinkernews.com/?p=1633Ladies, Gentlemen, and Ascendant Beings... I propose that those of us who dare venture into things pro and/or "paranormal" are merely going SANE in a quite maddened world. BeeLever posted:8/4/2011 1:18:17 AM Are you serious? "Travel through space and time is real and proven publicly on the internet", so is Snow White getting gang banged by The Simpsons. You are as close minded as everyone else on this site, but unfortunately you are a pretentious douche so you'll never even consider the fact you might be wrong, Skeptic has seen that there might be some validation behind what you people are saying. Me I'm still not convinced. PS - spriitech is and anagram for triceps hi, I think I know who the real software posing as a person is. Open your eyes people!!spiritech0 posted:8/4/2011 10:42:15 AM Plese leave the flaming for the Sun. Ware#47, I forgive your unfounded potty mouth, for you know not whom you're dealing with. You cannot be convinced of traveling through space like an astronaut because you are not interested in being one. You cannot be convinced of traveling through time though you mortally age and remember and are not a quantum physicist currently engaged in such things. Try reading something other than comic books. I did, and it brings out the true narcissists from the real scientists.If you don't have the desire or ability to attend a learning center, there's always a book published by them for you at the local library or this toy called the Internet. Your excuse level is at minus one to infinity. Argue with the smart people with the multiple PhDs, and remember I'm on your side. Peace. Here's a tiny bit to get you started. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6011/1604.full?sid=76951a4a-24dd-4265-ab27-927cb841de9ehttp://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/12/17/beam-teleportation-years-biggest-breakthrough/http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6011/1604.full?sid=76951a4a-24dd-4265-ab27-927cb841de9e===================http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/story?id=7889332&page=1http://www.phys.uconn.edu/~mallett/main/main.htmhttp://www.amazon.com/Time-Traveler-Scientists-Personal-Mission/dp/156858363X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312467036&sr=1-1 spiritech0 posted:8/4/2011 10:44:17 AM And "spiritech0" is short for Spiritual Technology Zero. Now you all know.Skeptic47 posted:8/5/2011 11:07:21 AM Spiritech0 1) A debate is defined as: "A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward." - Monica is putting forward arguments that are based entirely on personal experience, I am asking her to back them up. If Monica would like to enter a real debate I would more than welcome that but she will need to bring me something beyond anecdotes.If Monica and I are involved in a debate her argument thus far is "MY EXPERIENCES ARE FAR TOO PERSONAL TO ARGUE" and my argument thus far is "PROVE WHAT YOU SAY".It is impossible to argue against someone's personal experiences especially when that person adds things to their story to fill in any cracks formed through reasonable argument. 2) I don't really understand what you're trying to say here beyond 'see Chariot of the Gods' . I'll repeat though - Theory isn't fact but it's much more compelling than fiction; fiction is something that is made up, a theory is a model designed to fit around the facts and to be altered as facts that contradict it arise.On a bit of a side note; I put it to you that this is the opposite of how most people at this forum operate - they decide on a theory and then find 'facts' that fit around it. This is pointless. This IS fiction. 3) I provided a link to the wikipedia page outlining the theory - the source cited for that is: (http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(08)00398-8/abstract)However, I stated I was stepping into the realm of conjecture - I was trying to meet you half-way, as they say. I stated that this theory would allow a lot of what you guys are saying to be considered true.I stated that this theory would contradict a lot of what I've been saying.In fact, I wrapped up and handed you a nice little package which contained a way to argue things like alien abductions, remote viewing, ghost sightings - in fact, a lot of what is discussed on this site - while still remaining within the realms of "possible within man's understanding of science."In short, I got sick of none of you doing what I was asking for and went ahead and did it for you. So, please don't paraphrase my original point an expect me to say "woah - you've got me there"4) Once again, I stated that we were stepping into the realm of conjecture, why are you acting like I claimed that this theory was fact?Also - You've got me - I'm a piece of software designed to source proof and argue with people on online forums.spiritech0 posted:8/5/2011 3:53:13 PM Exactly..http://www.higgo.com/quantum/laymans.htm.Quantum theory/physics/mechanics proves that alien abductions occur.. Please log in or become a member to add a post.