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Does light has a consciousness?


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narxes   posted:6/9/2012 4:48:42 PM  (Reply)
Hey guys I been studying quantumfysica in my own time for quite a while now.
And I was wondering about your opinions about the reaction of light it self.
You have to know that light behaves like particles, but they don't exact, they behave like waves but they dont exact. and it depents on the situation its as if light has a conciousness.
when you take a look on this youtube movie you will understand what i am talking about.

In my opinion light is something we don't understand all to well yet.
And so far we been looking in the wrong direction for awnsers if you ask me.
light alsow seem to behave like a 2 dimentional object. and it seems to react with our demention both ways.
its as if its an extension of the light admitted object a effect of a difrent dimention.

there is alsow some thing called the observer effect, and scientists are well aware of it. It is caused because the circumstances in which the electron is in change with the introduction of new material (aka the observer). It is NOT that important as we can recreate the circumstances of the electron in normalcy. The electron doesn't know it is being watched. It has no mind, nor reason, it is just acting that way because of its interactions with matter.


breeld   posted:6/9/2012 5:40:31 PM  (Reply)
Narxes, that`s funny....I have that same video in my "bookmarks", and show it to anyone who will watch. It fascinates me.
Let me make that a little more clear. The reason I said "funny" is that when I saw the title of your post, the first thing that crossed my mind was the double slit experiment. Then after reading on into the post, I saw you had the video on there.
narxes   posted:6/9/2012 6:54:09 PM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
breeld  posted:6/9/2012 5:40:31 PM  (Reply)
Narxes, that`s funny....I have that same video in my "bookmarks", and show it to anyone who will watch. It fascinates me.
Let me make that a little more clear. The reason I said "funny" is that when I saw the title of your post, the first thing that crossed my mind was the double slit experiment. Then after reading on into the post, I saw you had the video on there.
very nice !
the video is just so clear and easy to understand for any one.
Jaxerback   posted:6/10/2012 1:01:46 AM  (Reply)
There are a lot of people out there trying to understand Quantum reality.
In my humble opinion,some things will never be understood.
gary107   posted:6/10/2012 2:03:52 PM  (Reply)
the mere fact of a electro-magnetic device being introduced could have an affect on the protons. it may prove to be a great misunderstanding in the history of Psychics.
Levinus   posted:6/11/2012 5:49:35 PM  (Reply)
This mess is so jumbled up that I feel like throwing up. I'm at work and can't take the time to fix all of this yet. So until later, NO! Light isnt conscious. Even the little movie was filled with errors. It gives you the completely wrong idea.
Jaxerback   posted:6/12/2012 4:48:56 AM  (Reply)
Cant wait!!
Hurry up and get typing Levinus!!
Levinus   posted:6/12/2012 8:04:00 AM  (Reply)
Okay! Sorry about that! I actually found time to respond in between my soul-sucking shifts at work.

So here is the first bit of confusion: There is a HUGE difference between light and electrons. Light is generated by electromagnetic wave/particles that are a VERY specific frequency and energy levels. Electrons are NOT the same thing. They are very different forms of energy. What are they exactly? Well...the kicker is we haven't really figured it out. We know that they generally behave following laws of probability, and they also tend to act like particles.

So here is a pretty basic layout of our atom. Protons and Neutrons are in the center of it. They are the most massive and very tiny. Around them is this fuzzy...probability cloud of electron(s). We know a few things about the cloud...it has to occupy certain spaces (read up on some Niels Bohr) away from the nucleus to keep our atom stable. Just like a dropping a stone in water makes rings....an electron cloud looks the same way. The rings can grow if you shoot them with photons. And if the rings shrink...they fire a photon or two out. This same action is what makes solar panels work...its what makes lasers work too. It is important to understand wave/particle duality. What it really means is that the mathematics for waves, and the mathematics for particles both can describe the same thing. There are two kinds of math that describe electrons. Schrodinger's model which defines it as a wave, and the Bohr/heisenberg model that describes it as a particle.

In the movie, they were using ELECTRONS, not photons. Electrons have way different properties! Another thing to keep in mind is that the movie had a lot of bad information in it. You know that "observer effect" they talked about? The act of "simply observing changes shit"? There is nothing simple about observing! In order to observe, we have to shoot stuff with electrons or photons. You can't see in a dark cave can you? No. So when we use our equipment, it interacts with the particle we observe. Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. The more we know about its position, the less we know about its momentum or spin. The more we know about its spin and momentum, the harder the little booger is to find. This is the basis for a lot of quantum mechanical principles. Heck, its the basis for our entire quantum model today.

So two things here. In the movie, they forgot to mention something....WAY cooler. The electron is actually taking every conceivable route through/around the slits. It is headed through grandma's house. It blasted by the moon.... Seriously....every possible route. So when we observe it, just like Heisenberg predicts, it will act like a particle! When we don't observe it (aka, don't shoot it up with photons) it acts like a wave. Its kinda weird, but kinda not. You act different when your boss it watching, don't you? Probably more predictable? Probably safer? Electrons are the same way. Just like unruly children, they tend to behave when they are being observed.

So does the observer really change things? Indirectly, yes. The observer's photons do. It isn't just some passive eyeball sitting next to the electron. Observing doesn't work that way. We have to actually see LIGHT or some form of radiation as it is reflected/emitted by the particle.

So no. Light isn't conscious. Neither are electrons. They simply have properties that change based on certain conditions. Read up on Heisenberg, Bohr, and Schrodinger. Also check out a couple books from Brian Greene, who is an excellent educator on the topic.
Jaxerback   posted:6/12/2012 10:38:41 AM  (Reply)
I could not have put it better myself!!LOL!!
Jaxerback   posted:6/12/2012 5:46:08 PM  (Reply)
What does the "soul sucking shifts" entail??Im betting on an office environment,an accountant maybe??
Jaxerback   posted:6/12/2012 6:02:57 PM  (Reply)
Or maybe a bar tender??
narxes   posted:6/12/2012 6:30:21 PM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
Levinus  posted:6/12/2012 8:04:00 AM  (Reply)
Okay! Sorry about that! I actually found time to respond in between my soul-sucking shifts at work.

So here is the first bit of confusion: There is a HUGE difference between light and electrons. Light is generated by electromagnetic wave/particles that are a VERY specific frequency and energy levels. Electrons are NOT the same thing. They are very different forms of energy. What are they exactly? Well...the kicker is we haven't really figured it out. We know that they generally behave following laws of probability, and they also tend to act like particles.

So here is a pretty basic layout of our atom. Protons and Neutrons are in the center of it. They are the most massive and very tiny. Around them is this fuzzy...probability cloud of electron(s). We know a few things about the cloud...it has to occupy certain spaces (read up on some Niels Bohr) away from the nucleus to keep our atom stable. Just like a dropping a stone in water makes rings....an electron cloud looks the same way. The rings can grow if you shoot them with photons. And if the rings shrink...they fire a photon or two out. This same action is what makes solar panels work...its what makes lasers work too. It is important to understand wave/particle duality. What it really means is that the mathematics for waves, and the mathematics for particles both can describe the same thing. There are two kinds of math that describe electrons. Schrodinger's model which defines it as a wave, and the Bohr/heisenberg model that describes it as a particle.

In the movie, they were using ELECTRONS, not photons. Electrons have way different properties! Another thing to keep in mind is that the movie had a lot of bad information in it. You know that "observer effect" they talked about? The act of "simply observing changes shit"? There is nothing simple about observing! In order to observe, we have to shoot stuff with electrons or photons. You can't see in a dark cave can you? No. So when we use our equipment, it interacts with the particle we observe. Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. The more we know about its position, the less we know about its momentum or spin. The more we know about its spin and momentum, the harder the little booger is to find. This is the basis for a lot of quantum mechanical principles. Heck, its the basis for our entire quantum model today.

So two things here. In the movie, they forgot to mention something....WAY cooler. The electron is actually taking every conceivable route through/around the slits. It is headed through grandma's house. It blasted by the moon.... Seriously....every possible route. So when we observe it, just like Heisenberg predicts, it will act like a particle! When we don't observe it (aka, don't shoot it up with photons) it acts like a wave. Its kinda weird, but kinda not. You act different when your boss it watching, don't you? Probably more predictable? Probably safer? Electrons are the same way. Just like unruly children, they tend to behave when they are being observed.

So does the observer really change things? Indirectly, yes. The observer's photons do. It isn't just some passive eyeball sitting next to the electron. Observing doesn't work that way. We have to actually see LIGHT or some form of radiation as it is reflected/emitted by the particle.

So no. Light isn't conscious. Neither are electrons. They simply have properties that change based on certain conditions. Read up on Heisenberg, Bohr, and Schrodinger. Also check out a couple books from Brian Greene, who is an excellent educator on the topic.
very nice how you explain things. thank you for that! I to thought that movie was a bit dull in some parts.
breeld   posted:6/13/2012 5:31:55 AM  (Reply)
Thanks, Levinus. Explanation extraordinaire!
Tawana   posted:6/13/2012 7:19:10 PM  (Reply)
Tawana   posted:6/13/2012 7:25:34 PM  (Reply)
In physics light is absoloute, is it possible there is a deeper relationship between the light of physics and consciousness , could they possibly share a common ground , something that manifests here in the physical as light and in the mind as the light of consciousness, just a thought , interesting posts .
Levinus   posted:6/14/2012 8:39:14 AM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
Tawana  posted:6/13/2012 7:25:34 PM  (Reply)
In physics light is absoloute, is it possible there is a deeper relationship between the light of physics and consciousness , could they possibly share a common ground , something that manifests here in the physical as light and in the mind as the light of consciousness, just a thought , interesting posts .
You are certainly brushing on a topic that makes physicists entirely too uncomfortable. Especially when we are doing really sensitive observations. Firstly...everything we do must have a physical representation. An image needs to be enhanced, a theory needs to be expressed, a simulation needs to be simulated... This all sounds very normal, but if you think about it, none of it occurs naturally. Does that interfere with the nature of our topic? Maybe.

Also Tawana, there is astronomical heaps and piles of evidence that suggests our consciousness, even from a single mind, can cause disruptions in normal probability. We can influence the throw of the dice, the fall of a coin... Sure, it is only fractions of a percent...but in physics...that's a big deal.

As a third really irritating complication...our vision is full of holes. Our brain fills in a lot of stuff. Heck, even the way light hits our eyeballs makes the world inverted. We are actually seeing a corrected version of the world. Even these words are hitting your optic nerve in reverse. But your brain is fixing it. Which is another issue. How many of our observations in physics are actually true observations? Or are they just...."brain paintings"?

So Tawana, don't ever mention consciousness to a physicist. You make our blood pressure go up, and our palms start sweating. We don't understand consciousness and it makes us want to call our mommies. Thank you for your consideration.
spiritech0   posted:6/14/2012 11:56:46 AM  (Reply)
What would Neo do?
Tawana   posted:6/16/2012 7:50:22 PM  (Reply)


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