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Well....Have you ever wondered?


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mysticaura   posted:7/24/2010 8:43:24 PM  (Reply)
Ok. I know. But I just had to do it. Ask the ultimate question. Now, I don't want to make any one upset or think I dont belive in God because I do very much. I just wanted to hear what people had to say to what I'm about to ask. Because I myself asked this guestion to a very reglious person along time ago when I was young and they had no answer but that "It just is". I'm just a little curious what some of you may have to say or even wondered your selves. With all this God particle talk it made me think of a time when I was young and I thought........If God created all creation then who or what created God? Is there a higher being than God? And where did they come from? So did God just float around in a vast emptiness and decide one day that he was lonely? So we say God is light and energy. Did this vast emtiness swirl around and create this higher being we call God? Parallel universe?(another topic) Did God come from some where else?Hmmmm...just wondering.
mysticaura   posted:7/24/2010 8:58:12 PM  (Reply)
Just me agian. I had an after thought. I have been watching Ancient Aliens and how they are taking things from the bible and other things here on earth and compairing it to what we belive and don't believe and honestly some of what they are are showing and proving makes sense. Do you think maybe God or us come from aliens or another universe? Agian just wondering.
steriddler   posted:7/25/2010 4:08:01 AM  (Reply)
there is nobody higher than god, god once was mortal himself on some planet, and he had an heavenly father as we do. He made it back into the presence of his god ( heavenly father ) and over a period of time eons possibly, he advanced to a god himself. He and his wife (wifes) had spiritual children (us) and over a period of time we when ready was sent here.
Chriswin2010   posted:7/25/2010 4:37:40 AM  (Reply)
I think God is only a "god" relative to our understanding. Maybe it is some one that can make planets and life that never dies, but of course there is something higher than our god. I think it is just relative to stupidity. Would you think I was a god if I made a planet out of nowhere and created life on it? It is 100% possible to do that, and you would think, relative to your understanding that I was god or a god...
tapuout4985   posted:7/25/2010 11:18:25 PM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
steriddler  posted:7/25/2010 4:08:01 AM  (Reply)
there is nobody higher than god, god once was mortal himself on some planet, and he had an heavenly father as we do. He made it back into the presence of his god ( heavenly father ) and over a period of time eons possibly, he advanced to a god himself. He and his wife (wifes) had spiritual children (us) and over a period of time we when ready was sent here.
Wouldn't God's Heavenly Father in fact be higher than God in that case?
jeff   posted:7/26/2010 12:08:43 AM  (Reply)
I think logic fails for anything that deals with infinity. So, saying there is nothing higher than God is the point where human understanding kind of collapses on itself and doesn't make any sense anymore. I read a bunch of stuff about Kurt Godel way back when who always talked about how every 'complete' system had a hole in it that made it incomplete. So saying God is everything logically fails...since that would imply god is also everything that he is not. God 'is all' means god is the complete system. But no system is complete, so he can't be everything. If there was an all, there would be no infinity--that kind of thing...
Severen   posted:7/27/2010 10:57:07 PM  (Reply)
I think god exists in the capacity of some sort of unseen or inexplicable controlling force.  Scientifically, a lot could be explained once we have a better understanding of things like Higgs bosons.  It is just a way to quantify something that is beyond our understanding.  I think it is stupid, as well as naive, to assume or have faith that some sort of sentient, omnipresent being exists and has control over everything.  It is more comforting to place that control in the hands of something we can relate to, or trust.  Religion (and spirituality) caters to people who are to scared to entertain the idea of an existence without some sort father-figure who is out there controlling everything.  I got in big trouble at vacation bible shchool as a kid because I'd ask questions like the OP.  I used to argue with the teachers about why some people would go to hell on technicalities.  I was dead-set that if you could be a moral and upright individual, and do everything except buy into the dogma of organized religion, and be punished and go to hell essentially on a technicality - then there was no point.  The decision is being made for you.  Christians are always touting free-will.  It isn't free-will if your only alternative is hellfire and damnation.  It is backwards logic and fear-mongering.  There is no room for free-will in any institution that promotes any kind of deity.
tapuout4985   posted:7/28/2010 1:18:01 AM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
Severen  posted:7/27/2010 10:57:07 PM  (Reply)
I think god exists in the capacity of some sort of unseen or inexplicable controlling force.  Scientifically, a lot could be explained once we have a better understanding of things like Higgs bosons.  It is just a way to quantify something that is beyond our understanding.  I think it is stupid, as well as naive, to assume or have faith that some sort of sentient, omnipresent being exists and has control over everything.  It is more comforting to place that control in the hands of something we can relate to, or trust.  Religion (and spirituality) caters to people who are to scared to entertain the idea of an existence without some sort father-figure who is out there controlling everything.  I got in big trouble at vacation bible shchool as a kid because I'd ask questions like the OP.  I used to argue with the teachers about why some people would go to hell on technicalities.  I was dead-set that if you could be a moral and upright individual, and do everything except buy into the dogma of organized religion, and be punished and go to hell essentially on a technicality - then there was no point.  The decision is being made for you.  Christians are always touting free-will.  It isn't free-will if your only alternative is hellfire and damnation.  It is backwards logic and fear-mongering.  There is no room for free-will in any institution that promotes any kind of deity.
I agree with everything you said about Christianity, but I think that it is unfair to include all religions in that lot.  I'm a Reverand in a Unitarian church and what I ask of people is to simply accept that corruption is everywhere.  That is why there are elements in so many religions that have the "do this or else" aspect to them.  They are ways for the leadership to control the little guy, but that doesn't make everything in the religion false or pointless.  I love how many Hindus believe that in their religion all religions are possible.  They believe that all of their gods are actually just different aspects of one Supreme Being and that all other religions are just other aspects of the same Supreme Being.  I personally believe that there is a Supreme Being, who does appear to different people in different aspects, and does have an afterlife for us that is dependant on how we behave during our life.  I do not believe that He/She is controlling everything at all times.  I think He/She has come to Earth in many different guises to set an example of how we are to live and how to treat others, but I don't think that is a mandate.  I think the most important thing is for every person to accept themselves and to listen to their conscience.
dimitri   posted:7/29/2010 5:13:46 PM  (Reply)
there is no God.....the true god is just your mind.  the awareness and the conciousness of the self. for one to realize they are part of the earth and the universe as matter and energy. Once you can understand that we are just a miniscule part of the convergence of atoms and electricity in the universe it all makes sence. we're just another organism that has grown and developed they way we have simply becuse we are bound by the laws of physics and we just wouldnt exist if we didnt have the earth and an atmosphere. People have lost sight of the true meaning of life. the true meaning is......We are not all that important......we are just another living organism that has developed an awareness of the self......unlike a bacterial organism or a rock. it doesnt question why it exists - it just simply does. . Because of this fact, we have learned to regard life as something precious as we have an understanding that something living has to come to an end on the concious level. we just exist on a ball in space, like anywhere else somewhere out there. if we were to dissapear, the universe would just consume all the matter and energy in order for an equilibrium in the universe. our life energy would be absorbed into the universe. 
Severen   posted:7/31/2010 12:12:29 AM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
tapuout4985  posted:7/28/2010 1:18:01 AM  (Reply)
I agree with everything you said about Christianity, but I think that it is unfair to include all religions in that lot.  I'm a Reverand in a Unitarian church and what I ask of people is to simply accept that corruption is everywhere.  That is why there are elements in so many religions that have the "do this or else" aspect to them.  They are ways for the leadership to control the little guy, but that doesn't make everything in the religion false or pointless.  I love how many Hindus believe that in their religion all religions are possible.  They believe that all of their gods are actually just different aspects of one Supreme Being and that all other religions are just other aspects of the same Supreme Being.  I personally believe that there is a Supreme Being, who does appear to different people in different aspects, and does have an afterlife for us that is dependant on how we behave during our life.  I do not believe that He/She is controlling everything at all times.  I think He/She has come to Earth in many different guises to set an example of how we are to live and how to treat others, but I don't think that is a mandate.  I think the most important thing is for every person to accept themselves and to listen to their conscience.
I think organized religion essentially boils down to control and or superstition.  It just blows my mind how people can take something that was written well before the era of science and any kind of understanding of the world and universe and just take it so literally.  I mean, the majority of people out there actually try to dismiss empirical evidence because it doesn't jive with what their religion has taught them.  I don't think there is anything worse and more destructive in the world than willful ignorance.  Over 90% of the world believes in some sort of god.  I don't want to sound like a complete bastard, but the majority of the world is ignorant and stupid.  I'll even risk saying that the United States is the leader in willful ignorance and stupidity.  We are setting a horrible example for other countries, and are actively taking over other countries by throwing them into debt.  The ignorance and stupidity is just propagating on a level that is staggering.  Most Americans are unaware of their own "god given" rights.  They have no real understanding of politics, or how the entire system is set up to nurture their ignorance.  We have the upper 1% of the population running around with all of the money and pretty much doing whatever the hell they want.  Anyone who bucks the system is immediately thrown under the bus and fed to the angry horde of zealots.  I'm not just talking about the right wing here - left wing included.  Both sides are equally ignorant of the truth.  Those that do know the truth use religion to control the majority, and if that doesn't work, they create a bunch of other false-flags and red herrings to catch everyone else.  If anyone actually does take a stand, they end up dead.  All you have to do is try to get the truth out to the masses and they will find a way to make you disappear.  I'm rambling here, but it all goes back to my point - religion has been hijacked to control people - and it definitely has a history of making people who do not comply disappear from the equation. 
lilfitted13   posted:7/31/2010 12:42:22 AM  (Reply)
Read up on the Ancient Astronaut's theory. Our God is an alien, He would be higher to us cause aliens are higher to us.
Asmodeus Grundy   posted:7/31/2010 11:46:42 AM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
Severen  posted:7/27/2010 10:57:07 PM  (Reply)
I think god exists in the capacity of some sort of unseen or inexplicable controlling force.  Scientifically, a lot could be explained once we have a better understanding of things like Higgs bosons.  It is just a way to quantify something that is beyond our understanding.  I think it is stupid, as well as naive, to assume or have faith that some sort of sentient, omnipresent being exists and has control over everything.  It is more comforting to place that control in the hands of something we can relate to, or trust.  Religion (and spirituality) caters to people who are to scared to entertain the idea of an existence without some sort father-figure who is out there controlling everything.  I got in big trouble at vacation bible shchool as a kid because I'd ask questions like the OP.  I used to argue with the teachers about why some people would go to hell on technicalities.  I was dead-set that if you could be a moral and upright individual, and do everything except buy into the dogma of organized religion, and be punished and go to hell essentially on a technicality - then there was no point.  The decision is being made for you.  Christians are always touting free-will.  It isn't free-will if your only alternative is hellfire and damnation.  It is backwards logic and fear-mongering.  There is no room for free-will in any institution that promotes any kind of deity.
Not that I'm the most religious person in the world, but I don't think the point is we go to hell on a technicality.  According to the bible we are born into original sin.  The original sin isn't the Adam & Even sin by having a snack on munchies saved for God.  After all, it was hanging out on the munchie tree, and temptation crept in by way of a naughty little serpent.  The original sin was committed by God's high priest, Lucifer in Heaven.  Anywho, we were born into original sin falling into that temptation trap, and therefore damned.  Damnation is by our actions of giving in to temptation, but salvation is not gained by any deed save accepting the Son of God died for our transgressions.  Salvation, according to the bible, is a gift free given from God only by asking.  We should repent of our sins, and accept Christ, and try to walk a straight, and narrow path towards righteousness (not that we can achieve our own rightnessnous, because we all fall short, but we take on God's Righteousness), and by God's Grace, and Mercy we are forgiven.  The bible is a stickler on that fact, salvation is only from God, we can do nothing but submit to His will.  According to Christianity there is free will.  We chose God, or a worldly life.  It doesn't say we'll be perfect, but it says we all fall short of righteousness.  No fear mongering here, your free will gives you the choice to do whatever you want.  You don't have to be perfect, just strive for perfection.  When you fall short, and you will, I'm included, that's when the Grace, and Mercy of God kicks in.  Why you ask, no idea.  You can accept it, or not, because the bible also says to look to your own salvation.  You can spread the good news of the kingdom around until you're blue in the face, and bring salvation to the multitude, but if you're left out, then what good does it do you.  Make sure you're right with God, then look to others, or just hang out, and enjoy the wonders of the world, again, your choice.  Somewhere in here, I'm certain, there was a minor, humble correction in Christian beliefs.  Whatever you believe, hope it works out for you...
tapuout4985   posted:7/31/2010 11:16:21 PM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
Asmodeus Grundy  posted:7/31/2010 11:46:42 AM  (Reply)
Not that I'm the most religious person in the world, but I don't think the point is we go to hell on a technicality.  According to the bible we are born into original sin.  The original sin isn't the Adam & Even sin by having a snack on munchies saved for God.  After all, it was hanging out on the munchie tree, and temptation crept in by way of a naughty little serpent.  The original sin was committed by God's high priest, Lucifer in Heaven.  Anywho, we were born into original sin falling into that temptation trap, and therefore damned.  Damnation is by our actions of giving in to temptation, but salvation is not gained by any deed save accepting the Son of God died for our transgressions.  Salvation, according to the bible, is a gift free given from God only by asking.  We should repent of our sins, and accept Christ, and try to walk a straight, and narrow path towards righteousness (not that we can achieve our own rightnessnous, because we all fall short, but we take on God's Righteousness), and by God's Grace, and Mercy we are forgiven.  The bible is a stickler on that fact, salvation is only from God, we can do nothing but submit to His will.  According to Christianity there is free will.  We chose God, or a worldly life.  It doesn't say we'll be perfect, but it says we all fall short of righteousness.  No fear mongering here, your free will gives you the choice to do whatever you want.  You don't have to be perfect, just strive for perfection.  When you fall short, and you will, I'm included, that's when the Grace, and Mercy of God kicks in.  Why you ask, no idea.  You can accept it, or not, because the bible also says to look to your own salvation.  You can spread the good news of the kingdom around until you're blue in the face, and bring salvation to the multitude, but if you're left out, then what good does it do you.  Make sure you're right with God, then look to others, or just hang out, and enjoy the wonders of the world, again, your choice.  Somewhere in here, I'm certain, there was a minor, humble correction in Christian beliefs.  Whatever you believe, hope it works out for you...
My problem with Christianity (and don't take that the wrong way, I have disagreements with Christianity, but not hatred or anything) has very little to do with the doctrine tought in the Bible, but with the mentality of so many Christians.  The modern Chrisitan is one of the least accepting and tolerant people walking the Earth today.  Christians can't stand to see a culture that hasn't converted; they simply see nothing but heathens and savages.  It saddens me deeply when I hear Christians arguing over what interpretations of the Bible is right and which is wrong.  For example, talking about sin and forgiveness, I witnessed two Christians argue over what it really meant for Christ to have died for our sins.  The more common belief being that if you accept Christ as the Son of God, you are forgiven your sins.  The counter arguement was that Christ had taken all sin upon Himself and willing become the sacrifice for God's forgiveness of man, therefore, all sins performed by man are forgiven no matter your belief.  The whole arguement is based off of one person taking a literal translation and another taking a slightly metaphoric translation.  I fail to see how a Christian can take the moral high ground at all when Christianity has slowly been tearing itself apart for 2,000 years, and has edited out parts of the Holy Bible (supposedly written on inspiration from God) because some council a millenia and a half ago didn't think the masses needed to know what was in them.  Christians are brain washed to believe that their way is the only way, even though the basic beliefs of Christianity vary from church to church and century to century. 
Chriswin2010   posted:8/1/2010 1:37:12 AM  (Reply)
lol yeah that is true I like to ask Christians if they think god is an alien they say "no". But then I ask them "Does he live in space?"- yes , "Can he create planets and life?"-yes, "Do you look up in the sky when you think about him?"-yes, then god is in fact an alien because they are worshiping a space being, end of story...
Asmodeus Grundy   posted:8/1/2010 1:56:35 AM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
lilfitted13  posted:7/31/2010 12:42:22 AM  (Reply)
Read up on the Ancient Astronaut's theory. Our God is an alien, He would be higher to us cause aliens are higher to us.
I have to agree that God is an alien, in fact the ultimate alien.  He wasn't born of this planet, therefore he's alien to this world, but hey, that's okay.
Asmodeus Grundy   posted:8/1/2010 2:05:52 AM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
dimitri  posted:7/29/2010 5:13:46 PM  (Reply)
there is no God.....the true god is just your mind.  the awareness and the conciousness of the self. for one to realize they are part of the earth and the universe as matter and energy. Once you can understand that we are just a miniscule part of the convergence of atoms and electricity in the universe it all makes sence. we're just another organism that has grown and developed they way we have simply becuse we are bound by the laws of physics and we just wouldnt exist if we didnt have the earth and an atmosphere. People have lost sight of the true meaning of life. the true meaning is......We are not all that important......we are just another living organism that has developed an awareness of the self......unlike a bacterial organism or a rock. it doesnt question why it exists - it just simply does. . Because of this fact, we have learned to regard life as something precious as we have an understanding that something living has to come to an end on the concious level. we just exist on a ball in space, like anywhere else somewhere out there. if we were to dissapear, the universe would just consume all the matter and energy in order for an equilibrium in the universe. our life energy would be absorbed into the universe. 
That's something I can't believe, that there is no God, and we have no purpose, just accidents, or parasites on the face of this earth.  Take a huge imaginative step back, and look at how things work.  There's order in this chaos, and chaos is an illusion, because we can't see the bigger picture of how things work together.  Moons circle planets, planets circle stars, stars circle around in a galaxy.  I'm sure groups of galaxies circle each other in some sort of ordered cluster.  Rogue bodies that seem to defy order, if we step back even further, I'm sure you could see order even in them, and so on, and so on.  We may even find out universes circling something else that we have no name for, yet, possibly God.  Now go the other direction towards a smaller scale.  Look in nature how everything works together sustaining each other.  There's something out there.  Call it what you like, its just a name.  We may never understand it, but its there keeping order out of chaos...
macros72   posted:8/2/2010 7:01:33 AM  (Reply)
This question as to where god came from is like the chicken or the egg puzzle.Perhaps in our 3D universe such questions can never be answered.Perhaps the answer can only be realised if one steps away from the 3D realm and sees reality in crystal clarity.  
Asmodeus Grundy   posted:8/4/2010 5:00:42 PM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
tapuout4985  posted:7/31/2010 11:16:21 PM  (Reply)
My problem with Christianity (and don't take that the wrong way, I have disagreements with Christianity, but not hatred or anything) has very little to do with the doctrine tought in the Bible, but with the mentality of so many Christians.  The modern Chrisitan is one of the least accepting and tolerant people walking the Earth today.  Christians can't stand to see a culture that hasn't converted; they simply see nothing but heathens and savages.  It saddens me deeply when I hear Christians arguing over what interpretations of the Bible is right and which is wrong.  For example, talking about sin and forgiveness, I witnessed two Christians argue over what it really meant for Christ to have died for our sins.  The more common belief being that if you accept Christ as the Son of God, you are forgiven your sins.  The counter arguement was that Christ had taken all sin upon Himself and willing become the sacrifice for God's forgiveness of man, therefore, all sins performed by man are forgiven no matter your belief.  The whole arguement is based off of one person taking a literal translation and another taking a slightly metaphoric translation.  I fail to see how a Christian can take the moral high ground at all when Christianity has slowly been tearing itself apart for 2,000 years, and has edited out parts of the Holy Bible (supposedly written on inspiration from God) because some council a millenia and a half ago didn't think the masses needed to know what was in them.  Christians are brain washed to believe that their way is the only way, even though the basic beliefs of Christianity vary from church to church and century to century. 
Christians, and honestly, all other religions argue over interpretation of their belief systems.  It always will be that way until the very end.  There's nothing wrong with debating your beliefs, its how we air things out.  I understand what you're saying about the mentality of so many Christians.  The Uber Right have set themselves of as the poster children of Christianity.  If you don't see things their way, then you're going to Hell.  The fact is, many of the preachers asking donations to feed, clothe, and provide health services for the poor, while building themselves million dollar mansions, and giving themselves, their families, and cohorts monster salaries will have a surprise when their lives are over.  How many will stand up, and face the final judgement without Christ standing up for them?  I'm sure there's some good ones out there, but many scam the public, hide behind their tax exempt status, while living the high life on the broken backs of others.  I assume that's the type you're referring to, they're the most judgemental.  One thing the Bible tells you to do is not judge others.  Judge not unless you are judged.  Its human nature to judge, but the Bible tells us to fight the urge.  I'm not talking about our judicial system, because that's the government's function.  We need law, and order.  I've known many churches who do more judging, than they do looking after their own salvation.  Imagine how Jesus would be received in these churches.  The council you're talking about I believe is the Council of Nicea.  I watched a show a while back about hidden secrets.  Can you imagine how many hidden secrets the Catholic Church is hiding?  I don't really think they know anymore.  I agree that some of the original text of the Bible is missing.  There's a lot to be discovered that is hidden, and someday it will all come out.  I guess the only thing we can do, if you believe, is worship in your own way, pray for guidance, and have faith.  Anything more is beyond us.  If we put our faith in God I believe it will all be okay in the end.  The point is, as of right now, we are separated from God, and that's why, according to the Bible, Jesus was sent, to die for our transgressions.  He voluntarily sacrificed Himself for us.  Whether you believe that, or not is what determines your ultimate destiny.  I prefer Heavenly Cruise Lines, as opposed to Hell Adventure Tours.  If I believe, and I'm wrong then what's the harm, but if you don't believe, and you're wrong, then you'll find out what the harm really is.  I don't understand it all, and there's a whole lot of faith thrown in there, but I've seen enough to know there's something past this old life, and I'm not that much of a gambler to take that risk.
tapuout4985   posted:8/4/2010 5:21:54 PM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
Asmodeus Grundy  posted:8/4/2010 5:00:42 PM  (Reply)
Christians, and honestly, all other religions argue over interpretation of their belief systems.  It always will be that way until the very end.  There's nothing wrong with debating your beliefs, its how we air things out.  I understand what you're saying about the mentality of so many Christians.  The Uber Right have set themselves of as the poster children of Christianity.  If you don't see things their way, then you're going to Hell.  The fact is, many of the preachers asking donations to feed, clothe, and provide health services for the poor, while building themselves million dollar mansions, and giving themselves, their families, and cohorts monster salaries will have a surprise when their lives are over.  How many will stand up, and face the final judgement without Christ standing up for them?  I'm sure there's some good ones out there, but many scam the public, hide behind their tax exempt status, while living the high life on the broken backs of others.  I assume that's the type you're referring to, they're the most judgemental.  One thing the Bible tells you to do is not judge others.  Judge not unless you are judged.  Its human nature to judge, but the Bible tells us to fight the urge.  I'm not talking about our judicial system, because that's the government's function.  We need law, and order.  I've known many churches who do more judging, than they do looking after their own salvation.  Imagine how Jesus would be received in these churches.  The council you're talking about I believe is the Council of Nicea.  I watched a show a while back about hidden secrets.  Can you imagine how many hidden secrets the Catholic Church is hiding?  I don't really think they know anymore.  I agree that some of the original text of the Bible is missing.  There's a lot to be discovered that is hidden, and someday it will all come out.  I guess the only thing we can do, if you believe, is worship in your own way, pray for guidance, and have faith.  Anything more is beyond us.  If we put our faith in God I believe it will all be okay in the end.  The point is, as of right now, we are separated from God, and that's why, according to the Bible, Jesus was sent, to die for our transgressions.  He voluntarily sacrificed Himself for us.  Whether you believe that, or not is what determines your ultimate destiny.  I prefer Heavenly Cruise Lines, as opposed to Hell Adventure Tours.  If I believe, and I'm wrong then what's the harm, but if you don't believe, and you're wrong, then you'll find out what the harm really is.  I don't understand it all, and there's a whole lot of faith thrown in there, but I've seen enough to know there's something past this old life, and I'm not that much of a gambler to take that risk.
I agree that there is no harm in debating beliefs, but when people start changing thier beliefs to take advantage of their followers, and killing everyone that doesn't except them there is a problem and that is what the Catholic Church has been doing for millenia.  And saying that being a Christian is just a safe bet?  I don't think Jesus would appreciate that.  I think it is much more important to listen to your conscience and be a good person than it is to walk around saying, "I believe in Jesus because it's the safe bet."  Also, Jesus wasn't sent to die for our transgressions, He was sent to be the King of Israel.  He was suppose to take back what was once the kingdom of David through peaceful means, but He failed in that.  Read Jesus' words and judge for yourself, instead of interpreting them the way the church says to.  The idea that Jesus died for all our sins and that you have to go to church and say you believe in Him to be saved and go to Heaven is a fabrication created by the church to control the masses. 
Asmodeus Grundy   posted:8/5/2010 12:41:09 PM  (Reply)

In Reply To:
tapuout4985  posted:8/4/2010 5:21:54 PM  (Reply)
I agree that there is no harm in debating beliefs, but when people start changing thier beliefs to take advantage of their followers, and killing everyone that doesn't except them there is a problem and that is what the Catholic Church has been doing for millenia.  And saying that being a Christian is just a safe bet?  I don't think Jesus would appreciate that.  I think it is much more important to listen to your conscience and be a good person than it is to walk around saying, "I believe in Jesus because it's the safe bet."  Also, Jesus wasn't sent to die for our transgressions, He was sent to be the King of Israel.  He was suppose to take back what was once the kingdom of David through peaceful means, but He failed in that.  Read Jesus' words and judge for yourself, instead of interpreting them the way the church says to.  The idea that Jesus died for all our sins and that you have to go to church and say you believe in Him to be saved and go to Heaven is a fabrication created by the church to control the masses. 
I agree its wrong for people to use their religion to violently promote their agenda.  I don't mean to say that a person should believe in Jesus because its a safe bet, but I guess it kind of turns out that way from outsider perspective.  It is a safe bet, but its not the reason to do it.  If you do it for that reason only, then you're missing the whole point, and you wouldn't be true to your beliefs, therefore you don't really believe.  Its a great leap of faith to believe in a creator.  You'd ask, "Why didn't God create everything right the first time, then there would be no need to save anyone?"  Its a good question, and one which will lead you on a path of endless questions.  There's a point in time when you'll have to make a dicision of which path you'll take, and live your life accordingly.  That doesn't mean you can't change your mind down the road, at least up to the point when worms will be eating at your brains.  That reminds me, its lunch time.  Its the whole point of the Judeo-Christian belief system, we must make a choice of what path to follow.  If you're not a Christian, then why even worry about it, other than there are all these people out here trying to fight over their beliefs, or at least using them as an excuse.  Usually the fights are really over land, or money.  Religion is just the excuse to rally the masses.  The Evil Empire is doing this, or the Great Satan is doing that, oh, and we can get them to rebuild our countries, and pay loads of money to keep us calm.  It seems the Great Satan has loads of money to throw around.  We're a sacred cash cow to the world, yet we have one of the worse health systems in the industrialized world.


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